I saw this on SIG Forum

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I saw this on SIG Forum

Post by scottc » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:43 am

Ok please let me set this up for you, a man from Hollond orignially posted the first piece as a question. His screen name is BMF, the response which in my opinion was awe inspiring and wanted to share with you all is right after it. His screen name is the Atomic Chicken. Yeah I think he has some issues, but the response was amazing. Just to say this I did not write the response, though I wish I did.

Scott Cohen


Originally posted by BMF:
I'm trying to understand how Americans who support 2nd ammendment/pro gun think (since we come from totally different societies)

I am allowed by Dutch law to possess (not carry!) a firearm. I think (hope) I'm responsible enough to handle it so no accidents will happen. But at the same time I think more than 99% off the average Dutchmen arent that responsible and should never have access to a firearm. So I would never commit myself to supporting a (imaginary) new Dutch law that would grant all Dutch people the right to bear arms. (I know it sounds hypocrit, but have to explain how I think to make it comparable)

I'm truly interested how you guys see that. I understand each of you thinks the same about yourself as I do (responsible enough for possesion/carrying/maybe even self-defence) but what about that neighbour who misses some screws in his head. Should he have the same rights?

(To make it simple: Yes, I want a gun but I dont want everybody to have a gun)

First off, please grant me the indulgence of apologizing beforehand if I say anything that offends you... it is definitely NOT my intention to direct ANY sort of negativity toward you in any way... nor is it my intention to insult you or offend your cultural sensitivities or biases in any way. Having said that, let me attempt as far as possible to answer your question.

In the first part of your post, you ask how Americans who support 2nd amendment/pro-gun thinking can do so. This is probably the simplest part of your post to answer: We refuse to be victims. We refuse to be victims of criminal activity, and we refuse to be victims of governmental tyranny. Ask any 2nd amendment supporter in the U.S. why they defend the right of individuals to own firearms, and the VAST majority of them will say that the reason is self-defense. Sure, there is the occasional clueless moron who will claim that the founding fathers of this great nation had "duck hunting" or the "deer harvest" in mind when they wrote in the 2nd amendment (which, by the way NEVER mentions hunting in ANY way)... but those people are in the minority - in a BIG way. I would say that EASILY 49 out of 50 Americans I have ever had 2nd amendment conversations with have seen the true intent of the founding fathers - to insure that ALL men be armed, willing and able with the proper tools for the job, to stand up to ANY MAN OR INSTITUTION that would threaten their precious freedoms and right to self-determination.

You see, Mr. BMF, the United States of America is the first (and probably the last) great experiment in a particular political philosophy. It is the philosophy that government should (and MUST) be the proper servant of THE PEOPLE, not the other way around. When you view government in that light, it is VERY easy to see why the founding fathers of this country took special care to VERY CLEARLY identify the areas of influence within which the government had NO RIGHT to involve itself in. This is a little scrap of paper and ink we call "The Bill of Rights", which was so important to the framers of our constitution that they adopted it almost immediately, and with very little dissent or discussion. This is the list of things that SEVERELY LIMITED our government - an attempt to keep it from legislating things like speech, religion, individual self-defense, property rights, military housing at private residences, unreasonable search and seizure, etc. etc. etc.

This is VASTLY different from the European model of government that you are undoubtably familiar with - where the rights of the GOVERMENT are outlined (but rarely limited)... and the rights of THE PEOPLE are relegated to whatever you can "read between the lines" after witnessing the power of the almighty state and it's influence in almost every aspect of your life.

This leads me to the answer to the 2nd part of your post. You bring up the fact that while your country allows you to own (but NOT carry, we wouldn't want anyone to actually get any USE out the vile things!) firearms, you view 99% of your fellow Dutchmen as irresponsible and not capable of safely/responsibly/cognisantly/whatever-ly owning the same. HOW DO YOU KNOW????? WHAT in the world makes YOU the authority on what your fellow countrymen are/aren't capable of handling? Give 100% of your fellow Dutchmen the OPTION of owning/carrying firearms, and you might just be surprised at the level of safety/responsibility that they exhibit.

I live in a country that makes me shake my head in disbelief every day. Stupid people. Vain people. Ignorant, narcissistic, selfish, oblivious, greedy, completely moronic people. My country's television and cable companies broadcast non-stop 24-hour-a-day-7-day-a-week-365-day-a-year BULLSHIT television that is FULL of the height of human perversion: Violence, Sex, Domination, Thuggery, Murder, Greed... yes, especially greed. Disgust for our fellow man is high on the list of American values, including water-cooler talk at the office about who is going to be fired that week, and how nice it is that he/she will be gone... nattering, nitpicky, gossipy, mean-spirited talk... at least, that is, when we are not talking about how hot the general manager's wife is and how we'd like to have a go at her if we could have just 20 minutes in the broom closet alone between meetings! Jelousy, envy, rage, and scheming underhanded manipulations to further our personal interests are ALL part of the American "Dream" - a part of our cultural landscape that you really need to be here and experience first-hand to believe.

Given ALL that, why would I trust ANY of my fellow Americans with the awesome responsibility of a deadly weapon and the power of life/death over all that he/she surveys? Very simple. I feel VASTLY safer knowing that out of every 20 or 30 people I see on the street, ANY ONE of them could be carrying. I feel safer because I know that EVERY CRIMINAL that walks the street WITH me is aware of the same thing, and is just a bit more hesitant about picking out some poor "sucker" to do violence to or rob... wondering all the time if the supposed "victim" might actually be able to fight back, and turn the criminal himself into a "victim"!

I trust my fellow countrymen, and I don't try to take it upon myself to decide who is or isn't worthy of this awesome responsibility. I know that those who are unworthy will eventually be weeded out, discovered by the harsh and unmerciful light of truth and justice... and the rest will go home quietly and confidently knowing that they and those they love are secure on the street and in their homes. And WOE BE IT to any scheming, thieving, sorry excuse of a person who tries to interfere!

Best wishes,

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Post by Splitter » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:50 pm

Nice post Scott...... once again.
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